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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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 Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:08 pm Post subject: parousia |
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-when was the doctrine of the invisible presence first taught?was it developed after christ did not manifest himself to the world to their disappointment?
h
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joyful
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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What I dont get is that why it is not clear to the world and to us, His followers?
h
Additional questions is that why does not Jesus apparent even to His followers? Jesus was noticed by many of His followers when He first came down on earth.
All these prophesy reasonings seem confusion after confusion to me. God is not God of confusion, I believe.
h
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joyful
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hitomi,
I am just studying this subject myself, & am coming to the view that perhaps Jesus has not yet returned as we have always believed.
There are some events that are to occur on Jesus return, none of these have as yet happened.
When I get them sorted out & in order I'll send you a properly set out email with our findings.
The BS's have always believed Jesus returned in 1974, I could never agree with this for several reasons. Alexander has been discussing this viewpoint. I am not aware of any proper chronolgical evidence that CTR has given to support this date 1874. I am of the opinion, the only way one can arrive at 1874 as the end of the 6000 years of mans existence, is by altering scripture, & this is forbidden.
I was of the view that Jesus returned in 1914, but in the last few days I've been in discussions with some brothers in Australia & we are absolutely of the view that Jesus has not as yet returned. His return it would seem is very imminent.
I am waithing for some papers, documents to come through the post, so this may take a couple of weeks to get the full answer to you. I will PM you in the meantime.
I know that this is a contrversial subject, & it is not my intention to be offensive to anyone. If what we are just now discovering is true, it will be of benefit to many of the true followers of our dear Lord & master.
It is nothing to do with predicting another date, but I believe will show that Christ has not yet returned, as we have believed.
WCL,
Ion.
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joyful
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know that I would say that He will return in the flesh. I believe that He is capable of manifesting in the flesh, as He did after His ressurection. In whatever manner the return for judgment may manifest itself, one thing I believe to be certain; it will be apparent, so apparent that there can be no doubt as to what is happening. The particulars may be intriguing to contemplate, but I won't divide with anyone over it.
Regards, Brenden.
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joyful
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| Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I can relate to Brendon's reasoning. that is simple and realistic imo. It drives me crazy the way so many learned Christians' scholastic and complicated studies.
h
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rus virgil
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joyful
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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I would like to share my view without chronological knowledge.
What I gather is that Elect will be gathered until Jesus starts reigning, As soon as He does, it will stop.
It is not logical to think that Jesus is reigning this world now because world's wickedness is continuing and increasing.
I believe JWs and BSs interpretation is completely out of context, they seem to be making God' kingdom more complicated than actually is.
hitomi
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humbleservant
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| joyful wrote: |
I would like to share my view without chronological knowledge.
What I gather is that Elect will be gathered until Jesus starts reigning, As soon as He does, it will stop.
It is not logical to think that Jesus is reigning this world now because world's wickedness is continuing and increasing.
I believe JWs and BSs interpretation is completely out of context, they seem to be making God' kingdom more complicated than actually is.
hitomi |
Hitomi, I agree with you on this. I will explain a little.
I believe that Jesus began His reign on His return to heaven in 33 CE,
However, He did not turn His attention to the earth until the "end times".
I won't speculate on when that happens.
Satan is still in control over this system at the present time, the evidence proves that.
We quite often get hung up on chronology, & forget the bigger picture, our faithfullness & obedience to our Father. We cannot change what happens, only with regards to ourself, each one answers to God.
I have received the papers from the brother over here, & am starting to digest it slowly. I did not realize that he had so much information, it is very good.
I agree with Brenden that we "will not" need to ask if Christ is present!
It will be very obvious to ALL mankind. This is why I say the Parousia has not yet happened.
As to His invisible presence, I believe that this is true, invisible. I also think that He may materialize at times as He did following His resurrection,
as Brenden has said.
More later.
WCL,
Ion
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rus virgil
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| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| joyful wrote: |
I would like to share my view without chronological knowledge.
You did well . It is not possible to understand what God meant through the chronology , without first addhering/accepting the teaching of Christ .
What I gather is that Elect will be gathered until Jesus starts reigning, As soon as He does, it will stop.
You understood well ! In fact , He start reigning over earth after the Elect are gathered/ because to them the reign will be given Daniel 7:27.
It is not logical to think that Jesus is reigning this world now because world's wickedness is continuing and increasing.
Never said Jesus that He will reign this world ! ( you comprised well ) John 18:36.
It is prophetised that He will reign in the midst of His enemies - for a short time , until these ones will leave the earthly scene.
That is another thing
I believe JWs and BSs interpretation is completely out of context, they seem to be making God' kingdom more complicated than actually is.
Indeed....
what makes it very complicated is the wrong chronologies both BS and JW are using and believing ..
this chronologies are completely OUT of the teaching of Christ !
hitomi |
rus v. in red.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:41 am Post subject: |
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thank you for your reply, joyful is on her mission trip and will reply when she can  |
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